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This 491 message thread spans 17 pages: < < 491 ( 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 > >     
Massive Cuil Search Engine Launched
"World's Largest Search Engine" is the claim
kamikaze Optimizer

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 4:43 am on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

SAN FRANCISCO — In her two years at Google, Anna Patterson helped design and build some of the pillars of the company’s search engine, including its large index of Web pages and some of the formulas it uses for ranking search results.
Skip to next paragraph

The makers of the Cuil search engine say it should provide better results and show them in a more attractive manner.

Now, along with her husband, Tom Costello, and a few other Google alumni, she is trying to upstage her former employer.

On Monday, their company, Cuil, is unveiling a search engine that they promise will be more comprehensive than Google’s and that they hope will give its users more relevant results.

[nytimes.com...]

 

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 12:57 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google controls what its audience sees, so the junk jockeys generate their pages in ways that game the system.

Junk Jockeys - First time I've heard that one, that's a good one too.

Ya'll are still talking about cuil? Come on now, there are more important things in Foo [webmasterworld.com].

Murdoch

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 1:20 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think they need some Cuil-Aid

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

They need to fix the image problem first and avoid losing a lot of potential investment money on lawsuits. Everything else can wait for later. I'm willing to give them as much time as they need, but that needs to be dealt with pronto.

And they should really stop with all the self-righteous PR bullhockey. It isn't doing them any favors.

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 4:23 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

> I'd love to see a rival to Google, but Cuil isn't it. robho - 2008

I'd love to see a rival to Altavista, but Google just isn't it. btabke - 1998

Google was a so lame, quirky, and had such irrelevant results in the top ten, there was no way they were going to make it as it was built. Sheeze, they only had 25million pages and the word was, that the db system was maxed out entirely. What did they do? They worked on it for ten years.

So talk to me about Cuil in 2018.

> glitches

The founders say they were hoping for a million searches the first day. They got 50million. That is more than Microsoft Live Search gets in a day.

> over-the-top PR campaign

According to Monier - they spent ZERO dollars on marketing. They put out 1 free press release and the rest was 100% word of mouth. Dudes, people really really really want another search engine to succeed.

Have you read the search pedigrees here? [cuil.com...]

Patterson - Tera Google
Monier - CTO Altavista, CTO EBAY
Power - Tera Google
Baumgart - IBM Almaden
Costello - IBM WebFountain

That is the best founding team we have ever seen in a new search engine. Sure, others have failed (GigaBlast, Wisenut, and a lesser degree Teoma), but we gave them a chance to prove themselves. We should give that same chance to team cuil.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 4:31 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

^ Nice to see a voice of reason within this topic, thanks Brett!

2018

Okay, I'll wait. Can we resurrect this same topic then? I have a feeling we'll still be around although this particular forum may be...

Deprecated - Alternative Search Engines

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 4:58 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google was a so lame, quirky, and had such irrelevant results in the top ten, there was no way they were going to make it as it was built.

Yes, but that was ten years ago when most folk didn't even know what a search engine was and there was less competition. Ten years on people are much more web savvy.

I have already said that I would like to have seen them succeed but I don't think they will be around in 2018.

(If they are they better not still be using my images on other people's websites.) ;)

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 5:02 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

> and there was less competition.

umm. Might want to rethink that.

- infoseek
- altavista
- alltheweb
- inktomi
- excite
- webcrawler
- NorthernLight

There were another 10 big ones in europe alone.

now - we bascially have 3 (google, yahoo, ms). The web is also 10 times larger.

> Yes, but that was ten years ago

It was less than a week ago we deleted "yet another thread' about someone be moaning Google "spam filled" results. Hardly a week goes by when we don't get a report about google, yahoo, or microsofts results. It ain't easy being good in the search business.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 5:17 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google's Goal? By 2018...

Search to be aggregated into one service, Google. All the others can then sign up for an API and do as they wish their "Google" search results. Google will be the "Starship" and then there will be all sorts of "Starship Fighters" out and about. Who knows, cuil might be one of them. Hurry, get that AdSense on there today! < Sorry Brett, I just can't help myself now that I'm me. ;)

Can you imagine how active things would be if there were 20 "real" search engines? Wow!

Infoseek - On the scene in 1995 February - Woohoo! pageoneresults in hours!

[edited by: pageoneresults at 5:22 pm (utc) on Aug. 1, 2008]

andyll

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 5:21 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

BT - Google was a so lame, quirky, and had such irrelevant results in the top ten, there was no way they were going to make it as it was built.

By the time the general public (me at the time) stated hearing about Google their results were much better.

BT - The founders say they were hoping for a million searches the first day. They got 50million. That is more than Microsoft Live Search gets in a day.

Apples and oranges. Live gets their daily numbers by people actually using their product. Cuil got 50 million people that heard from the WSJ that a Google killer was out there. 49.999% of them walked away disappointed.

BT - Dudes, people really really really want another search engine to succeed.

Webmasters do. People want the best there is. They were told cuil was.

BT - That is the best founding team we have ever seen in a new search engine.

I would give that title to Page & Brin. :)

Just because you have smart people with great ideas doesn't mean a great product will be produced.

I'm sure all the listed founders have had their failures also. You never know which will come out when you're the one responsible.

Also AltaVista Google only had to beat out Alta Vista in search. Google is more then a SE now. When Cuil becomes a verb Iˇ¦ll try them again.
Andy

( I'm little surprised the love Cuil is getting from some of the seniors here considering Cuils Bot blatantly ignored Robots.txt and their indiscriminate use of copyrighted images for their own use)

Reno

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:01 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Have you read the search pedigrees here?

No argument from me about that -- the major player bios are the one part of this experience which, IMO, cannot be ignored or downplayed. As I said earlier, these folks DO have credentials and that definitely got my attention.

But that's also what makes the image glitch such a mystery -- how in the world did such smart people with such long experience miss that?

To me, that part of the story is simply inexplicable. We can only hope they'll come here or post on their own website some sort of explanation ... otherwise, I'm sorry to say, our doubts will remain justified.

.....................

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:05 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm starting to think some people here invested some money in Cuil.

No one else is noting that Cuil is just a search engine...Google, Yahoo, and Live are a hub of news, mail, games, weather, and more. Cuil, to the average webuser, is just a search engine who displays information in a different, foreign format than the others. Then offers nothing else.

What would compel me to leave my homepage of Google, Yahoo, or MSN for Cuil? Cuil needs to be AMAZING to win; right now their traffic and this topic being popular is just the fad of the week. Unless Cuil pulls a complete 180 on all fronts, they will fail.

[edited by: StoutFiles at 6:10 pm (utc) on Aug. 1, 2008]

Reno

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:23 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

No one else is noting that Cuil is just a search engine

True, but they have to walk before they can run, and right now, given the considerable problems, they are barely crawling.

........................

Murdoch

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:24 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

how in the world did such smart people with such long experience miss that?

I bet I can explain that with this hypothetical dialogue:

Programmers: We're done.
Investors: Where's the pictures?
Programmers: What pictures?
Marketing: The ones we told you about.
Programmers: Well we told you that we just don't have the processing power to pull that off just yet, we spent all our money on strawberries and muffins, so the best we could afford is two VMs running on a shared IP at GoDaddy.
Investors: Well you better think of something.
Programmers: But the launch date is tomorrow!
Investors: Then get cracking!

So now they have to please the investors while simultaneously coming up with a way to show images even though they don't have the processing power to handle pulling relevant image results straight from a site.

Who knows, maybe they'll fix it in a few weeks or so, but I guarantee if they pull all the images now someone's getting fired.

IanKelley

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:36 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google was a so lame, quirky, and had such irrelevant results in the top ten, there was no way they were going to make it as it was built.

That's a good point on the surface but the comparison doesn't ultimately work. By the time the world at large found out about Google their results were astronomically better than anyone else.

That is not going to happen with Cuil because:

1) The web is far too SEOed now.
2) Cuil doesn't have any new technology. They really don't, spend some time with their results if you doubt it.

That is the best founding team we have ever seen in a new search engine.

It's also the oldest :-) and most corporate. Not exactly the place you would look for industry shaking ideas given the choice.

cmarshall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 6:52 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Quick question: Wasn't the rock band Asia supposed to be a distilled "best of the best" band?

Sometimes, throwing together a bunch of high-performers ends up with the whole being less than the sum of the parts.

Great projects are done by great teams. This means that people dovetail on the places that really matter, they put aside their egos for the greater good and work towards making the sum product of their work the best it can possibly be.

There's no magic formula for this. Sometimes, a bunch of sweating rubes, ruled by an iron-fisted madman (Steve Jobs springs to mind) do it, sometimes, a relaxed and motivated team does it (like Google).

I seriously doubt that strawberries and muffins make good teams, nor do pedigrees.

As Brett said, I'll back off and let them stumble or walk, but the US has this fixation on personalities, and it's basic human nature to think that throwing together a bunch of high achievers will result in some kind of magic. Like Heaven's Gate.

Samizdata

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 7:49 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

people really really really want another search engine to succeed

There is nothing to stop a new engine with good results taking a slice of the market.

Webmasters will surely want it to show some respect, though - I would prefer any newcomer to have a crawler that honours robots.txt and meta tag instructions, to not use our images to promote other sites, to offer a way to remove pages from their listings, and generally to not treat our content as if they own it and can do what they like with it.

Cuil(l)'s illustrious founding team apparently has no regard for site owners.

Good manners might engender more goodwill.

...

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:23 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Programmers: Well we told you that we just don't have the processing power to pull that off just yet, we spent all our money on strawberries and muffins, so the best we could afford is two VMs running on a shared IP at GoDaddy.

Murdoch, you've been reading, that was too phunny!

Quantum **** engine foiled by strawberries and muffins
[theregister.co.uk...]

I think we should keep the Strawberries and Muffins alive as it paints a pretty good picture of what they were "expecting". New startup, acting like a Google already. The above article and related links are a must read for those following along and haven't read it yet. It's phunny!

Strawberries and Muffins

What a title! Sensationalism at its best. Oh, we can't forget about the first part of the title either. ;)

And, WHAT'S UP with the title of this WebmasterWorld Topic? I figured that would have been modified by now, yes?

Massive Cuil Search Engine Launched
Worlds Largest Search Engine

Maybe something along the lines of...

Cuil Search Engine Launched
Worlds Largest Search Engine Failure

All I did was remove one word and added one word (9/9). Fairly simple title edit and it would surely be more relevant to the topic at hand, yes? < Me being a smart arse today. > And, the more I look at the title edit, the more I think the original title was designed for just such an edit. :)

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:42 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Cuil Founders Note
[cuil.com...]

We are incredibly proud of what this small team of 30 employees has been able to build from scratch already, and we are committed to improving Cuil every day. Thank you for trying us out.

Not much from Tom, Anna and Russell on the subject.

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:49 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Who knows, maybe they'll fix it in a few weeks or so, but I guarantee if they pull all the images now someone's getting fired.

I don't think they have a few weeks. The legal eagles will already be lining up copyright infringement cases. How can Cuil ever justify blatantly using other people's images out of context.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 11:30 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you would prefer that we not crawl your site at all we are happy to oblige. Just drop Jim a note to that effect and he will place your site or IP address on our do-not-crawl list. Be sure to be explicit about the site to block as email address domains frequently differ from the site in question.

*splutter* So, anyone can ask for any domain to not be spidered, with no checks to validate that the request is genuine.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 11:34 pm on Aug 1, 2008 (gmt 0)

Hey g1smd, you didn't read all of the Webmaster Info...

Jim's the guy who keeps track of Twiceler, when he's not busy with his horses.

Based on many of the discussions I've read over the past year concerning Twiceler, Jim must be "real busy" with the horses. Hey Jim, I understand, we follow our passion dude. More power to ya! What kind of horses?

Don't you think it's kind of strange that there have been no real official public announcements from cuil? Did they flip the switch the other night and then take a vacation from all the hard work preparing for launch? Too many Strawberries and Muffins? < Oh, you will never, ever, live that one down. Ever! $33 million dollars and ya'll are having Strawberries and Muffins delivered to the office? Shame on you! Got any left?

Samizdata

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 12:12 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

I want to defend the practice of eating strawberries and muffins in the workplace.

This is something I do myself almost every day and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Got any left?

You can buy your own.

Or you can apply for a job with Cuil(l), who say on their site they are hiring.

...

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 12:28 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

>How can Cuil ever justify blatantly using other people's images out of context.

Several court cases have found that thumbnails are acceptable use.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 12:51 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Several court cases have found that thumbnails are acceptable use.

Ya, when they are relevant to the site in question. ;)

webastronaut

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 2:54 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Ok, this (so called search engine) site called (cool) cuil.com is wrong but how long have their spiders been around (or spider information)?

I am seeing old logos and banners from gambling sites that I gave up on, shut down and quit promoting from 1996 show up on un-related sites right now in Cuil for Las Vegas related keyword searches.

I'm going to show this to my Lawyer because the images that I have created years ago have been deleted from my sites but now they show up on cuil.com for popular keywords. The horrible part is that my designs are showing up next to sites that re-direct to virus and trojan downloads.

If you are a search engine scraper for spamming have fun with t... spider.

I'm pretty pissed that all the old scraper sites now re-appear at cuil.com with new re-directs to total spam.

Time to experiment with old time black hat spamming and see what horrible traffic I can get from C U I L

lol

zett

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:11 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Several court cases have found that thumbnails are acceptable use.

You're joking, right?

It's acceptable use if the thumbnails are used to point to your site in return, i.e. next to YOUR results. I can not slap up a set of (relevant) search results and put some (also relevant) thumbnails from other sites next to these results, just because it makes the results look good.

*shaking head*

They simply do not have a legal case. End of story. Such a behaviour is outright STUPID.

Have you read the search pedigrees here?

Hoes to show that the (supposedly cool) job history does not guarantee a smart person. I laid it out in earlier posts. Adding in the strawberries and muffins story, I think what has happened is indeed a bunch of average people could convince a bunch of (also just average) VCs to shell out the money, BASED ON THEIR COOL JOB HISTORY. They told the VCs - "if we can't do it, nobody can". They got their 20 seconds of fame, and that's it.

If they can't fix that image thing, they're toast anyway.

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:14 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Several court cases have found that thumbnails are acceptable use.

As P1R rightly points out, there would be no problem with this if the images were from the sites whose snippets they are being used to illustrate. I cannot see any court agreeing that it is all right to lift my images to advertise someone else's website.

They are actually using my logo to do this! That is one of the the crudest and most blatant forms of image copyright infringement imaginable.

CUIL = Cannot Use Images Legally. ;)

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:31 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Perhaps the images will be removed after a Cuilling off period. :)

Ouch!

Krunalsoni

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 8:42 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Nice Search Engine and its provide more details about searches. and cuil is really great search engine for find proper and meaning ful results.

Regards
Krunal Soni:)

BeeDeeDubbleU

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 9:04 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Wow! someone who likes it.

zett

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 9:24 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yeah, surprised too. But then again, maybe Cuil needs at least a few supporters. ;-)

ronin

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3708957 posted 11:16 am on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

CUIL = Cannot Use Images Legally. ;)

CUIL = Can't understand incomplex logic.

This 491 message thread spans 17 pages: < < 491 ( 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 > >
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